August 6, 2012
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An Unanswerable Question
One thing that I think is misunderstood about the Christian faith is its take on the problem of suffering and evil. Traditionally, suffering and evil came to a perfect world through the rebellious actions of a once perfect man. Eve, was tempted by a talking snake and she ate the fruit that God had forbidden her to eat. Adam, tempted by Eve, ate the fruit, and with that, all creation fell from harmony with God, and thus, suffering and evil was unleashed in God’s “good” world.
Some can accept the story as told in scripture as a literal historic moment for humanity. Others look at the story as a parable, an allegory, or just plain fiction. Those who accept the former often feel like they have the problem accounted for. The Bible clearly says how suffering and evil came into this world. The Bible explains why we go through hard times. The Bible says that we are disobedient to God, so we suffer.
Those who don’t take this story in the literal sense sometimes feel as if they are missing something to help the world around them make sense.
I fall into the latter category. I don’t take the story of Adam and Eve and the fall literally. To me, it seems that the more important theme of the fall is that we do disobey God. We do have to deal with suffering and evil. I don’t believe, however, that the focus on the story is how these awful fragments of existence came into the world. I don’t think the “how” is important. It’s important that it just is. The “why” of it all is something we still wonder on a daily basis.
It’s often asked, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” and that’s a very good question, but the question is out of focus. Bad things happen to good and bad people alike. On the other hand, good things also happen to good and bad people too. We have the tendency to lose this focus when something terrible happens to somebody we are close to. And that’s understandable. Nevertheless, as understandable as it is, it is still a question that isn’t focused, but distorted by our own broken feelings. Even God feels these broken feelings. Christians have the ability to be comforted in their suffering because Christ has suffered, and does suffer along with us. This isn’t an answer to the problem. It may even bring more questions. But even the perfect God suffers. Even God feels sorrow and loss. Even God has been tempted by evil. This is one of the amazing things about Christianity. We believe that God is very personal. This isn’t simple bumper-sticker theology. God is literally there with us in our pain as well as our rejoicing.
I’m still trying to find out how, if God even does, answer the problem of suffering and evil. Even in the book of Job, when Job questions God about why he has to go through his pain and torment, God pretty much asks Job who he is to question God. God never gave Job the answer he was looking for… But Job simply asked the questions that we ask ourselves almost every day…
Why is there so much pain and suffering in the world?
Is it even God’s obligation to answer the question?
When we look for an answer, we are never really satisfied… and God’s got the entirety of the cosmos so completely balanced that maybe, suffering and evil is simply just a natural part of the God-given gift of freewill. The entire universe, though it is bound to natural law, acts not with God pulling strings, but in order to keep balance… or maybe I just don’t know enough about how the universe works… Either way, would a good God create a world with so much suffering and evil? I think it is intellectually honest to say “Yes”, though the “why” may not ever be fully known.
The reasons why we all go through times of heartache, loss, grief, and pain, may not be clear to us, but I take comfort in knowing that one day, everything will be renewed and all will be right and in harmony with God. That’s the hope we have as Christians. The world may seem terrible, but God made it to be good, and one day, good will overcome.
Comments (26)
I don’t get how people can repeat this with a straight face. God is perfect, he made us perfect, then we fucked up everything.
What in the world is your definition of “perfect”? Mine is not making mistakes, like creating people who will fuck up the world.
Buddhists make much more sense of “evil” by acknowledging that good and evil are necessary opposites like light and darkness, one concept couldn’t exist without the other to contrast it. So good is, in a way, evil, and evil is, in a way, good. The same way that gravity is good and bad at the same time, it literally makes the world go around and allows life as we know it to happen, but it also kills, injures and cripples countless people each year. It is “evil” in the sense of having a negative aspect to it’s nature, but it isn’t a moral agent, it’s a blind property of nature.
@agnophilo - People aren’t the only ones who screw up the world. Nature does it to itself. And I tend to agree more with the idea of balance, which is why I talked about it in my post. But I’m a bit skeptical as to whether or not you even read it, considering you and I are saying a lot of the same things.
…Unless of course you are agreeing with me, which sometimes, I just can’t tell.
@agnophilo - Nowhere does it say God made us perfect. It says it was good. In order for there to truly be freewill, God cannot control us and force us to love and obey him.
I’ve always thought of as tying in to His honesty. If we had no choice, then our love for Him would not actually be an honest one. And if He made boundaries for just how far He would allow those who did not choose Him to go, it wouldn’t be fair to all the victims of the things just short of that boundary.
I thought Lillith came before Eve and was evil.
@musterion99 - Yet Jesus rejects the word good even for Himself, saying “No one is good but One, that is God.”
@SolidStateTheory - If “The Life of Adam and Eve” was considered scripture, I’d have no choice but to agree with you. Very good observation, though!
“But even the perfect God suffers. Even God feels sorrow and loss. Even God has been tempted by evil.”
is this what you have mentioned accurately describe the nature of god in christianity?
because if it is, then…. those who only want to accept a god without any “weakness” will definitely reject such belief, i think
@maniacsicko - I think that’s a very good question. The point of being a Christian is to be the hands and feet that God uses to bring heaven to earth. God limited himself when God came to earth in a human body, Jesus. Jesus humbled himself and served others so we can take his example and learn how to treat others so we can allow God to bring heaven to earth through us. This is why God can be considered “weak”. He became weak for our sake. God became weak enough to die on the cross for our sake. So it isn’t that God really is weak. It’s that God chooses to be weak so those who are weak can know who God is.
@jmallory - ”It’s that God chooses to be weak so those who are weak can know who God is. “
that basically means that God can be weak if he choose to be… that would mean the phrase “God almighty” is not necessarily true all the time… which is kind of a difficult concept for those people i mentioned before..
“Jesus humbled himself and served others so we can take his example and learn how to treat others so we can allow God to bring heaven to earth through us.”
if i ponder on this statement, some questions come to mind…
if God need/have to do so in order for us to see and follow the example, why didn’t the people before Jesus’ time also being given such an example?
i mean, they didn’t get God to come down, but just some men of God coming to them..
so, what is it that is different between the time that God choose to come down, and the time before, that make God to come down to bring heaven to earth at that time, and not before?
does that intention of God come at the time, after any thing happen or took place, that God now (then) decide to come down and bring heaven to earth?
@jmallory - I was just kind of ranting, I know you said you don’t take genesis literally. Sorry if I gave the impression you did.
@musterion99 - As jmallory just pointed out, much of the “evil” in the universe is not a product of free will, and many (if not most) christians believe god to be infallible. It’s not like I’m making a strawman here. And no it doesn’t say humans were perfect, but if god’s perfect then we’d have to be perfect too for that to be true, that’s what I was driving at.
@gayXianmom - Right. I’m sure the Hebrew word for good has a different meaning in that context as the Greek word does in the context Jesus used it in, which was to say there’s only one God.
@agnophilo - Even though God is perfect, that doesn’t mean what he creates will be perfect, especially concerning his creation that has freewill. In order for it to truly be freewill, there has to be a disconnect from God in that area. And the evil in the universe is a by product of the freewill decision Adam made when he disobeyed God. It affected all of creation. Before Adam did that, life on earth was good.
@musterion99 - What you are espousing – this convoluted theology – is the result of human reasoning which itself is faulty and cannot really know the true nature of God without scripture.
@musterion99 - So what is your definition of perfection? If I build a house and it falls down a week later, am I a perfect carpenter?
@musterion99 - If I put a landmine in my backyard and tell my kids not to play near it, and they do and end up splattered all over the neighbor’s house, do I bear none of the responsibility?
@agnophilo - Those are incomplete analogies. Without freewill, love can’t exist. If we are forced to love without a choice, that’s not love. And God provides complete forgiveness and eternal life.
@quest4god@revelife - It’s not convoluted. You’re a Calvinist which I believe is false convoluted theology.
@musterion99 - I know we’ve been through this before. I’m not about to discuss the various differences we have, and I wasn’t calling your beliefs false – only convoluted….case in point:” Even though God is perfect, that doesn’t mean what he creates will be perfect,” - and: “there has to be a disconnect from God in that area.”
Neither of those statements is in accord with the scriptural description of either the nature of God or of His handiwork. When we have to go that far afield to explain our beliefs, we are making things up, not expositing the word.
@quest4god@revelife - Sorry but you’re wrong. God is not responsible for evil. We are through our freewill choices. I’m not interested in debating it either. We’ll just have to disagree.
@musterion99 - I get that, but if that’s the case then our “mistake” was the whole point, it was god’s plan. Either way there’s no way a god could possibly be perfect because the world isn’t perfect.
@musterion99 - All powerful means all responsible. If god could’ve prevented evil from existing, made us knowing it would exist and allows it to exist he’s responsible for it.
@agnophilo - No, that’s a non sequiter. His plan was to create man with freewill. And a non perfect world also doesn’t mean God’s not perfect. It’s a result of us disobeying God. Before Adam sinned it was good and after judgment day, heaven will be perfect. God is all powerful in the sense that he can do whatever he chooses and he chose to create us with freewill, and not in the sense that he can do anything. For example, he can’t sin. He is not responsible for what we freely choose. I’m not interested in going in circles on this. This is always the result of discussing freewill. I have nothing more to add on this.
@musterion99 - How is anything I said a non-sequiter? So free will and the freedom to do evil is a good thing that god invented in his perfection? You seem to want to both give god the credit for ingeniously making us with free will (thus creating evil) while not giving him the blame for inventing evil. If he exists and made the world, he made an imperfect world, even if imperfection adds to life it’s still not perfection. As for the “we fucked it up not him” line, that’s like throwing a rock at someone’s head and saying “the rock hit him, not me”. The bullet killed that man your honor! You sound like the NRA: Gods don’t invent things, people do.
@agnophilo - I’ve already answered why. I’ll say it once more and this is it on this thread. Love can’t exist without freewill. If we’re forced to love, that’s not love. God chose to not create us as puppets but as free moral beings who could choose to love and obey him. The world he made was good. Adam rebelled and brought evil into the world. If you can’t understand that, then so be it. It’s a non sequiter to then conclude that God is not perfect. It’s not that hard to understand. You just don’t want to accept that God made us with freewill, in which he is not responsible for what we choose to do. That is also a non sequiter. You can reply back, but I’m done.
@musterion99 - If you create a being knowing it will do bad things yes you are responsible for what it does. If you can stop a bad thing from being done and don’t then you are also responsible for it. Your arguments are all non-sequiters and no you did not explain how anything I said was a non-sequiter. If I can stop a crime and choose not to I am at least partially responsible. I let it happen so I bear some of the responsibility right? Why does the same not apply to a god? All you’re doing is compartmentalizing which is psychological, not logical.
If you accept Jesus by faith how can you not believe Genesis as literal? Sure there are some things people take out of context as well as legitimate concerns. However Just as the rest of the Bible is constantly being verified by archeology etc I believe any questions in this book can be anwered. We already know the veracity of Sodom and Gomorah as well as many tales from this scripture.
Jesus himself validates Genesis when he talks about Noah and Sodom and Gomorah. To doubt these tales is to doubt the Savior. You might argue that you accept these tales just not the ones on creation. How can this be, what is the difference? Now once again there are as you stated questions but these do not lessen the reality of the narrative.