September 12, 2012
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What Breaks Your Heart?
I love Lenard Sweet. In light of what’s been going on in my blog as well as a few friend’s, I thought this was appropriate.
I love Lenard Sweet. In light of what’s been going on in my blog as well as a few friend’s, I thought this was appropriate.
Comments (30)
Because its not about relationships anymore =[ its become about religion in such a way that we forget that its about Jesus. How true are these mans’ words, the conviction of his heart… may it be the conviction and passion of all our hearts as believers.
I am so burdened, so motivated to bring this reality to light in our churches… the passivity and religious traditions that have stolen our focus from Jesus, from knowing Him. Oh how I have always longed to help cultivate intimacy in relationship with Christ. My passion is not a law, a religion, a ministry of sort – it is the most precious relationship one can ever encounter – Jesus Christ.
@xXrEMmUsXx - Leonard Sweet (the man in the video) and Frank Viola wrote a book together called “Jesus Manifesto”. You should look into it. It’s really really good!
@jmallory - Dude thats freakin awesome. I just discovered Frank – reading – Pagan Christianity by him right now – I have 3 chapters left and then onto “Reimaging the Church”. heard of those?
@xXrEMmUsXx - I’ve read Pagan Christianity. I love it, though, I am actually very “high Church”. haha…. Paganism and all… It’s interesting because you have Frank Viola who is low church and Leonard Sweet who is fairly high church, being a Methodist. They both came together and agreed that we really need to focus on Jesus and not who is right and who is wrong and all the politics within the church.
I’ve heard of “Reimaging the Church”, but I haven’t read it.
@jmallory - Pagan Christianity says its not to be read alone, but “re-imaging the church” is the finishing work… that it doesn’t make sense to mess everything up and not give direction for the vision of what the church is called it. So I’m more eager to get to the second book! mostly though, I had discovered most of this stuff myself… and was not the slightest bit surprised to read it.
Never really heard the term ‘high church” and ‘low church’. Interesting.
I’m still a little undecided as to what I am in view of those terms. While I’m not for a paid clergy, I also don’t really feel that abandoning church as its established right now quietly would bring the change needed to develop an ‘every member functioning’ gathering. I have witnessed these kinds of meetings and they are the most incredible, unique… powerful meetings I’ve ever been to. So, while I disagree with so many things in my church right now, I know I need to stay connected to an array of believers. I do think that the church is in for a change, a beautiful change if we are willing to let go of tradition.
@jmallory - also, I really really want to get Jesus Manifesto – i think it was a part of the group of books by frank that my friend ordered… she is letting me read them too. I think she got 6-8 books at once by Frank Viola.
I agree with a secular version of his sentiments.
@xXrEMmUsXx - “I do think that the church is in for a change, a beautiful change if we are willing to let go of tradition.”
Phyllis Tickle talks about this very idea in her book, “The Great Emergence”. I have not read it, but I’ve heard much about it. Check this LINK out for more information.
@jmallory - haha… I have been reading about the emerging church, is this related? I tend to be all over these ideas of movement all on my own journey and then as I start looking into my thoughts, ideas and concerns I find that people are already talking and moving in these same areas. hmmm… =]
@xXrEMmUsXx - Many many many people are. This is very much a part of the emerging church. Some are very skeptical of it, but I think it’s a necessity for the Church in a vastly changing world.
@jmallory - I think I will look into this book… that video was very intriguing… I’m very interested in this. I have been warned about post-modernism though is all these endeavors of study I’m embarking on… but, at this point… I’m practically a loan ranger until I can communicate what the heck is actually going on that has caused such a divine shift inside of me. “Jesus center…. He meant what He said” loved that =]
I am into less commercial churches and into churches that are into being less commercial. A pasteur/volunteer who earns his own income is a difficult proposition but it keeps the person grounded and more in tune with the Mercy of G-d.
I am studying why those fundamentals hate progessives and Liberals and will figure out what makes those folks tick. They tick me off and I don’t know why but I will figure it out.
Keep searching pilgrim, we will find our way to the Promised land.
@PPhilip - You very much fit in to the emerging church
@xXrEMmUsXx - Post-modernism is what it is. We are in a post-modern age and the church has to adjust. Another quote from Tony Campolo is that the Church has been post-modern since before post-modernity was thought of. Another paraphrase of course. I don’t think there is a threat… just another way to try and figure out how God and the world God created works.
@jmallory - oh yes. and to actually define post-modernism is difficult! Some people say its this… others say its that, while there are even more that say its not actually easy to put into words and understand because its about the time not just a specific set of things that can be rattled off or are specifically one thing or another.
I’m not afraid of it. I’m frustrated that those close to me can’t see some of the things that I can, but hey… things like this don’t change in a day!
@jmallory - @xXrEMmUsXx -
. By the GRACE of God does anyone get raised up within this model at all…it is usually someone “chosen” by the church to be a leader.
Re-imagining the church is a must read after Pagan Christianity. The clarity that both books bring lets us know it is within each of us to work towards turning the church back to its intentional form so it can become the bride. That takes taking a step out beyond comfort zones & may cause strain among tradition-al friends and family. The model the church is in now does not raise ppl up, it stunts and deforms them into permanent children, and we wonder why so many cause trouble among us and no believers…
One thing I have to say…be transformed in the information don’t let it be an update, accessory or an over-lay….
@Kris0logy - RIGHT! cant wait to start that book! =] I’m transformed… I will never be able to do church the same again…
@Kris0logy - @xXrEMmUsXx - I grew up in a traditional service, and when I got a little older, I thought it was boring so I went to a more contemporary service. That brought healing to me in significant ways. When I got even older, my wife and I got jobs at our current church. It is a very liturgical service (This is exactly what I mean when I say “High Church”). The pastor wears vestments, candles are lit, we sing from the hymnal (though we do also have a praise band), and we follow the liturgy. Once I came back to a more liturgical service, I couldn’t imagine going back to contemporary. The traditions are so rich with meaning. Every symbol is a symbol for God. It’s very experiential, even though this is what our tradition has done for nearly two thousand years now.
It’s not so much the style of church that matters, but what we do with what God gives us. I’m really excited to see the direction the emerging church will take us
@jmallory - I am trying not to use to strong of a word to convey my distaste for ‘liturgy’. but I’ve never really found a great deal of growth in such an organized service that there is little room for change, spontaneity or for anyone else in the congregation to participate in anything more than a unified prayer or song. I feel bad for having a strong opinion about that, but I just do. I find no beauty in it.
@xXrEMmUsXx - Everyone is different. What got me the most is the Lord’s prayer. Every Sunday, millions of Christians all over the world say it together! To me that is profoundly beautiful. It’s almost like the Catholic church holding mass in Latin. I find it distasteful, but there is something beautiful that despite opinions and differences, we all Catholics used to take that moment to be completely one. I began to apply that idea to all liturgy. But believe me… I used to hate it too. I’ve just allowed myself to put what I’ve found distasteful behind me, and I found a work of art
That’s just me though. I can feel comfortable worshiping in many ways, but I’ve seemed to find a place in liturgy.
@jmallory - Tradition and culture are tricky areas to manever within. Some of the Pagans were lured into Christianity by pagan traditioned that were tempered by Christianity.
Lithurgy and chanting has some sharing areas. The very mindlessness of familiar lines is comforting and forms a solid basis for some groups. Strange that on tuesday people are having thoughts? No really, people get inspired and try to write it all down ……
@xXrEMmUsXx - Serving the message is comforting to me. I suppose some of the ordinary things that you do are comforting too?
Don’t think I have been slacking off today. I am at my brothers helping him to install a water heater. Working well with him is also comforting to me too. I hope today finds you not too stressed?
@agnophilo - Perhaps you’ll enjoy this verse then. Give it a read and tell me what you notice.
@jmallory - I was familiar with it beforehand – I’m not sure what I’m supposed to notice, other than how opposite it is to conservative christian political ideologies these days.
@agnophilo - What did the righteous ask the king?
@jmallory - Where they had helped him. Is this a pop quiz? : P In other words they did good for goodness’ sake.
@agnophilo - Exactly. They didn’t do good because they were told. They just did good. They had no idea that they were serving king as they were serving others. No idea whatsoever. They inherited the kingdom.
@jmallory - I appreciate the sentiment, I really do. The bible also says “The
fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they
have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.”
And:
“Be ye not unequally
yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness
with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?And what concord hath Christ with Belial? …wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.”
There are many beautiful, enlightened, wise bits of scripture, and many ugly, horrible bits as well.
@jmallory - i can worship anywhere, and do worship everywhere… but I consider my life worship =] I guess to each their own =] I must admit, since I have not been in the usual comfort of my “pentecostal” church services filled with shouting, jumping and long music sessions… atmosphere seems to have little to do with my relationship with Jesus and I sense a radical growth this last year.
This is why I love this hymn:
Lift high the cross, the love of Christ proclaim
that all the world adore his sacred name.
We should lift high the cross of Christ which brings us healing.
Amen.