@xXrEMmUsXx - I’m curious what you think the verse “Obey them that have the rule over you” means. And what is the purpose of apostles, prophets, and pastors if there’s no authority and every one is equal? 

@xXrEMmUsXx - I agree that we are all priests but that doesn’t mean that there’s no authority. Just think of your family. You have kids. All of you are humans (analogous to all being priests) but that doesn’t mean you don’t have authority over your children. I believe the bible does speak of authority, otherwise why even have apostles, prophets, bishops, and pastors? But that doesn’t mean that those in authority can’t abuse their authority, which we have seen done many times. It’s just like anything else. We aren’t puppets. God gives us freewill and those in authority can sin just like you and I can sin. I’m also very wary of those in authority abusing their authority. I was in a church like that. I look for those in authority to show love in their life through their actions and to have a caring and serving heart.

@xXrEMmUsXx - 

 I think, in a sense, we all have authority in the area of our callings…

  Yes, which would mean a pastor has authority in the calling of a pastor in a church, which the other people don’t have in that church.

I don’t think any man was ever given authority over the body of Christ except Him.

    I agree with you in the context of the whole body of Christ, which is why I don’t believe in the authority of the Pope. However, a pastor does have authority in the local congregation of his church.

 I don’t believe in the offices of apostle, prophet, bishop, and pastor… I believe in the functions of them… for instance, I can prophecy, I can teach, I can shepherd/pastor.

     The bible speaks of the offices in I Timothy 3:1 – “This is a true saying, if a man desireth the “office” of a bishop (which is also a pastor), he desireth a good work. This is speaking about being a bishop/pastor of a local congregation. And in Titus 1:5, Paul says to Titus that he left him in Crete to ordain elders in every city. These are elders in local churches in each city.  And in Hebrews 13:5, he says to – “Remember them that have the rule over you.” And in verse 17 – “Obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”
This wouldn’t make any sense if these people weren’t in office and didn’t have authority. 

   
I believe the authority and guidance of all the Body does is through Christ and Holy Spirit.

     I would disagree and we would have to ignore all the verses I stated. I agree that God has the ultimate authority. For example, if a pastor told me to do something that wasn’t scriptural or after praying and asking God if the pastor was speaking the truth, I didn’t feel right, then I would not obey the pastor and would trust God to lead me.

@xXrEMmUsXx - I’m glad you’re enjoying the scripture references. Here’s a good article for some more on this and other verses. Note that the verses from Acts 20:28-29 uses the word overseers. LINK  Also in Revelation, Jesus addresses each of the 7 churches as the angel of the church. As far as I know, the angel is a symbolic reference to the bishop/pastor of each particular church.

@xXrEMmUsXx - To me, overseer infers a function of authority and is part of the office/position as described in Timothy. I’m still curious with your interpretation of the verses from Hebrews, “Obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves to them.” Who is the “them” that has the rule and are to be submitted to?

@xXrEMmUsXx - It says

- “we will now clearly show you how the above verses of Scripture have also been maligned and perverted to further the agendas of power-hungry, sanctimonious control freaks who are bent on corralling unto themselves a pliant people of unquestioned servility.”

I’ve already said I don’t agree with abuse of authority, but that doesn’t mean authority doesn’t exist.

Then it says – “Next, let’s examine the word “Obey” or “Obey them.”  Anyone can check this out simply by using a Bible software program.  When we go to the Strong’s number for the word translated “obey,” we find the Greek word “peitho”-  Strong’s number 3982.  It appears about 60 times.  By far the most common translation for this Greek word in the King James Version is “persuade,” “persuaded,” “persuadeth,” etc.”

The problem with this is that because it’s translated as pursuade in other contexts or verses, doesn’t mean that therefore it’s also translated as persuade in the Hebrews context. The Greek word “peitho”  is also translated as “obey, and to assent to authority”. I noticed in all the references he gave from other sources, he conveniently only gave the definitions that he wanted the reader to read and left out the words obey, and authority. I have both the Strong’s and Thayers Greek Lexicon and both of those use those words as one of the definitions. I wonder why he left out those definitions. He then gives another Greek word for obey as though this means that peitho doesn’t mean obey. This is misleading. The Greek has more than just one word for obey just as the Greek has more than one word for love and more than one word for other words

.

He then says – “If a church leader, be he a pastor or an elder, is living and walking by the Spirit and is continually looking to Christ as his example, he will never be desirous or demanding obedience to his so-called office or authority. The point to be observed is that mindless obedience is not what is pictured in Hebrews 13:17.”

I’ve already said earlier that I also believe this way. Obedience? Yes. Mindless obedience? No!

Then he says – “When we check what the Greek word translated “rule” is in this verse and verses like it, we find that this is not a translation but a redefinition of one Greek word. The Greek word translated ”rule over you” in Hebrews 13:7 and 17 and 24 is “hegeomai,” Strong’s #2233 and it is normally translated “count, esteem to lead” or “to go before.”  “…Them that have the rule over…” is a substitution by the translators.  There is no connotation whatsoever of “ruling over.”  True leadership is nothing more than going on ahead.”  

Again he does the same thing he did before. He only gives partial definitions of the word that he wants you to read and leaves out the definitions he doesn’t want you to read. I have my Strong’s open right now and it says “command  with official authority, judge, and have the rule over.”

Ask yourself why he doesn’t list all of Strong’s definitions. What is he afraid of? He probably knows that most people reading what he says are just going to believe what he says and not actually look up the Strong’s and Thayers definitions like I did. To me this is dishonest for him to do this. I’m not saying he’s entirely wrong and I said, I agree with some things he says.

He also says – “ The English definition of the word “rule” or “rule over”is totally devoid of any meaning or even suggestion of service, of ministering, of servanthood, of being an example.”

And this as I also said earlier, I agree with. A pastor needs to show care, love, and a serving heart before he can even think of having any authority.

And he pretty much says the same thing here:

Hupeiko in no way infers any kind of outward force being placed on the person yielding.  It is voluntarily yielding to someone else in Godly love.  In Christ’s ecclesia, you do not demand that someone submit to your authority.  If you do, it proves that you really do not have any authority.  You are not fit to lead if you are not capable of guiding.”

So all in all, I think I’m more in agreement with you and the writer of that article, than disagreement.